New to the list

[Ben Fourie]

Hey Every one,

I'm new to the list, and will be following id3v2 development closely from
now on.



I have a suggestion regarding a new tag frame or perhaps 2.



Nearly every single application out there builds up their own database of
metadata. One field that stands out that you find in all of those
applications is a rating field. The typical 5 star rating. This information
is stored by the application, and in most cases cannot be migrated to
another platform.

This will prevent most users (or at the very least make them very reluctant)
to switch to another player.



The second risk is loss of storage media.

You can backup your mp3 library but if you lose your OS drive(or the drive
that holds the metadata for your media player), all your ratings will be
gone, even after a system restore.



A suggestion from my side:



Have 2 rating frames.

One for your own personal rating with simply a numerical value from 1 - 5.

Then another rating frame for a public rating score.

Personal rating would contain the rating you chose for each individual
score.

When you sync iTunes for instance, apple can then collect all those ratings
and build a public rating for matching media.



Doing it this way, will of course allow you to migrate from the dying Zune
to iPod faster than you can swipe your credit card :-p without the fear of
losing all your ratings.



I would love to hear your thoughts around this.






Ben Fourie

DaMa Software

083 262 3555

<http://www.damasoftware.com/> www.damasoftware.com

<mailto:***@damasoftware.com> ***@damasoftware.com

MCTS(rgb)_507

[Ben Bennett]

There is such a tag "POPM":
http://id3.org/id3v2.3.0#head-2452ec9cf8b42c5c117b518b69e129ff67970852

However... the players mostly don't use it. You should hound them to
get it used.

It incorporates both a rating and a play count. There can be multiple
in the same file, with different email addresses to distinguish them.

-ben

Post by Ben Fourie
Hey Every one,
I'm new to the list, and will be following id3v2 development closely from
now on.
I have a suggestion regarding a new tag frame or perhaps 2.
Nearly every single application out there builds up their own database of
metadata. One field that stands out that you find in all of those
applications is a rating field. The typical 5 star rating. This information
is stored by the application, and in most cases cannot be migrated to
another platform.
This will prevent most users (or at the very least make them very reluctant)
to switch to another player.
The second risk is loss of storage media.
You can backup your mp3 library but if you lose your OS drive(or the drive
that holds the metadata for your media player), all your ratings will be
gone, even after a system restore.
Have 2 rating frames.
One for your own personal rating with simply a numerical value from 1 - 5.
Then another rating frame for a public rating score.
Personal rating would contain the rating you chose for each individual
score.
When you sync iTunes for instance, apple can then collect all those ratings
and build a public rating for matching media.
Doing it this way, will of course allow you to migrate from the dying Zune
to iPod faster than you can swipe your credit card :-p without the fear of
losing all your ratings.
I would love to hear your thoughts around this.
Ben Fourie
DaMa Software
083 262 3555
<http://www.damasoftware.com/> www.damasoftware.com
MCTS(rgb)_507

[Scott Wheeler]

Post by Ben Bennett
However... the players mostly don't use it. You should hound them to
get it used.

I believe rightly so. I don't think that a normal operation like playing a file should trigger a potentially lossy (e.g. ID3v2.2 to ID3v2.4 upgrade) action on a user's files.

-Scott

(to the mods, please just delete the earlier post saying something similar, sent it from the wrong address)

[Paul Taylor]

Post by Scott Wheeler

Post by Ben Bennett
However... the players mostly don't use it. You should hound them to
get it used.

I believe rightly so. I don't think that a normal operation like playing a file should trigger a potentially lossy (e.g. ID3v2.2 to ID3v2.4 upgrade) action on a user's files.
-Scott

Scott

I think you ae confusing POPM (rating with PCNT (play count)

Paul

[Ben Allison]

Besides the problem of modifying users' files to increment the playcount
without explicit permission (something I agree with you 100% on, Scott),
there is also the issue that the mapping of 1-5 stars with POPM values is
very vague. In Winamp, we've been somewhat coerced into adopting the
weird value ranges that Windows Media Player uses, as that is that is also
the logic used by the Windows file explorer when displaying the rating
column in the file view.

-Ben Allison

Post by Scott Wheeler

Post by Ben Bennett
However... the players mostly don't use it. You should hound them to
get it used.

I believe rightly so. I don't think that a normal operation like playing
a file should trigger a potentially lossy (e.g. ID3v2.2 to ID3v2.4
upgrade) action on a user's files.
-Scott
(to the mods, please just delete the earlier post saying something
similar, sent it from the wrong address)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ben Bennett]

Could you post that weird mapping here please so that it is at least
known in the archives...

-ben

Post by Ben Allison
Besides the problem of modifying users' files to increment the playcount
without explicit permission (something I agree with you 100% on, Scott),
there is also the issue that the mapping of 1-5 stars with POPM values is
very vague. In Winamp, we've been somewhat coerced into adopting the
weird value ranges that Windows Media Player uses, as that is that is also
the logic used by the Windows file explorer when displaying the rating
column in the file view.
-Ben Allison

Post by Scott Wheeler

Post by Ben Bennett
However... the players mostly don't use it. You should hound them to
get it used.

I believe rightly so. I don't think that a normal operation like playing
a file should trigger a potentially lossy (e.g. ID3v2.2 to ID3v2.4
upgrade) action on a user's files.
-Scott
(to the mods, please just delete the earlier post saying something
similar, sent it from the wrong address)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ben Allison]

1 star: 1 (i think)
2 stars: 64
3 stars: 128
4 stars: 196
5 stars: 255

Post by Ben Bennett
Could you post that weird mapping here please so that it is at least
known in the archives...
-ben

Post by Ben Allison
Besides the problem of modifying users' files to increment the playcount
without explicit permission (something I agree with you 100% on, Scott),
there is also the issue that the mapping of 1-5 stars with POPM values is
very vague. In Winamp, we've been somewhat coerced into adopting the
weird value ranges that Windows Media Player uses, as that is that is also
the logic used by the Windows file explorer when displaying the rating
column in the file view.
-Ben Allison

Post by Scott Wheeler

Post by Ben Bennett
However... the players mostly don't use it. You should hound them to
get it used.

I believe rightly so. I don't think that a normal operation like

playing

Post by Scott Wheeler
a file should trigger a potentially lossy (e.g. ID3v2.2 to ID3v2.4
upgrade) action on a user's files.
-Scott
(to the mods, please just delete the earlier post saying something
similar, sent it from the wrong address)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Peter Bennett]

Hi
FYI - I have an application for backing up your tags - tagbkup, backs up
and restores your ID3 tags so that if you have to restore your disk your
ratings and other updates can be restored, and you do not have to back
up entire mp3 libraries.
See http://jampal.sf.net
Peter

Post by Ben Fourie
Hey Every one,
I'm new to the list, and will be following id3v2 development closely
from now on.
I have a suggestion regarding a new tag frame or perhaps 2.
Nearly every single application out there builds up their own database
of metadata. One field that stands out that you find in all of those
applications is a rating field. The typical 5 star rating. This
information is stored by the application, and in most cases cannot be
migrated to another platform.
This will prevent most users (or at the very least make them very
reluctant) to switch to another player.
The second risk is loss of storage media.
You can backup your mp3 library but if you lose your OS drive(or the
drive that holds the metadata for your media player), all your ratings
will be gone, even after a system restore.
Have 2 rating frames.
One for your own personal rating with simply a numerical value from 1
-- 5.
Then another rating frame for a public rating score.
Personal rating would contain the rating you chose for each individual
score.
When you sync iTunes for instance, apple can then collect all those
ratings and build a public rating for matching media.
Doing it this way, will of course allow you to migrate from the dying
Zune to iPod faster than you can swipe your credit card :-p without
the fear of losing all your ratings.
I would love to hear your thoughts around this.
*/Ben Fourie/*
*/DaMa Software/*
*/083 262 3555/*
*/www.damasoftware.com <http://www.damasoftware.com/>/*
MCTS(rgb)_507